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Post by Hanasian on Nov 21, 2021 1:54:24 GMT
Lets talk about all three movies. What did you like about them?
What didn't you like about them?
Here is one of each from me. I'll add more later.
Dislike: My biggest issue with the Peter Jackson big-budget fan-fiction is the Dunedain Rangers and Arnor itself was written out of it, completely altering the whole story as told in the books. In the movie storyline, there is never given a reason why Aragorn "chose exile" and left the Kingdom of Gondor to be ruled by the Stewards, or more precisely, a drunken slob Denether. Aragorn was presented more as some royal 'man-child' who went off to do his own thing and was chasing after some Elven hottie up north.
The argument I always get is 'it's too complicated' or 'there isn't time' or 'non-book fans wouldn't get it' etc. Yet, PJ finds time to write in a whole army of elves marching all the way from Lorien into his script an used the minor character of Haldir as the ;cinematic death' in place of the Dunedain anger Halbarad. The scenes could have just as easily been written with the Dunedain Rangers and the Sons of Elrond (and daughter?) with an army of elves. It would have been closer to the actual book story and would have kept the whole reason of Aragorn being the 'lost heir' as opposed to a weakling shirker of responsibility.
Like: A lot of the scenery and some of the casting for the parts. The Shire was perfectly done and Ian Holm as Bilbo was spot on. The Prancing Pony looked the part as well. The river sequence asfter leaving Lorien and the Argonath was well done, and as for battles, the warg attack was right out of 'Unfinished Tales' though not at the Fords of Isen, and I thought Helms Deep was the better of the two bigger ones. I was impressed by the Ride of the Rohirrim too.
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arelleth
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Post by arelleth on Nov 22, 2021 1:19:08 GMT
Lets talk about all three movies. What did you like about them? What didn't you like about them? Here is one of each from me. I'll add more later. Dislike: My biggest issue with the Peter Jackson big-budget fan-fiction is the Dunedain Rangers and Arnor itself was written out of it, completely altering the whole story as told in the books. In the movie storyline, there is never given a reason why Aragorn "chose exile" and left the Kingdom of Gondor to be ruled by the Stewards, or more precisely, a drunken slob Denether. Aragorn was presented more as some royal 'man-child' who went off to do his own thing and was chasing after some Elven hottie up north. The argument I always get is 'it's too complicated' or 'there isn't time' or 'non-book fans wouldn't get it' etc. Yet, PJ finds time to write in a whole army of elves marching all the way from Lorien into his script an used the minor character of Haldir as the ;cinematic death' in place of the Dunedain anger Halbarad. The scenes could have just as easily been written with the Dunedain Rangers and the Sons of Elrond (and daughter?) with an army of elves. It would have been closer to the actual book story and would have kept the whole reason of Aragorn being the 'lost heir' as opposed to a weakling shirker of responsibility. Like: A lot of the scenery and some of the casting for the parts. The Shire was perfectly done and Ian Holm as Bilbo was spot on. The Prancing Pony looked the part as well. The river sequence asfter leaving Lorien and the Argonath was well done, and as for battles, the warg attack was right out of 'Unfinished Tales' though not at the Fords of Isen, and I thought Helms Deep was the better of the two bigger ones. I was impressed by the Ride of the Rohirrim too. I can see where you're coming from there! Aragorn becoming king only kind of makes sense when there's a realm of Arnor and a link with the southern kingdom of Gondor. There are people who have only ever seen the movies without reading the books and I think some of them must wonder, "But why Aragorn?" I do think that Viggo Mortensen did an incredible job portraying Aragorn. And every time I remember how in character he got even when not filming it makes me laugh! He hiked everywhere, spent hours bonding with the horse who became Brego, hunted down his own dinner once... I do wonder whether the army from Lorien was like fanservice - all those pretty Elvish extras.  I think my two biggest beefs are a) Frodo being mean to Sam and dismissing him - that never happened and is so out of character! and b) a bit of butchering of Faramir's character. The whole point of him *not* trying to take the Ring to Gondor was that his actions were meant to be a direct contrast to his brother's. PJ instead turned it into a daddy issues thing: Faramir trying to be like Boromir to gain his father's approval, which I think is probably relatable for people who grew up in dysfunctional families and evokes sympathy from viewers. It still wasn't Tolkien's original intent though! |
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Post by Synariel The Admin on Nov 27, 2021 23:17:26 GMT
Hanasian: Technically they did give a reason for Aragorn choosing exile in the movies. He was afraid he'd be weak like Isildur and not be a good king. And in the extended edition Elrond explains why his mother fled with him to Rivendell and thus why he didn't grow up or return Gondor for so long. I haven't read the books in so long so I don't remember the details your mentioning. I wonder if maybe PJ filmed it at some point tho. I keep hearing he has days worth of extra footage which if that's true, I really hope he releases someday cause I'd love to see all of these extra things from the books that had to be cut from the movies and I think lots of other fans would too! My likes: Casting was perfect! The sets and affects were all so awesome and magical, and so was the music!!! In a visual and audio sense everything was just perfect!!! 💯 Dislikes: The same as Aralleth. I was gonna mention the exact same things. I really didn't appreciate how they wrote in Frodo telling Sam to go home when he never did that in the book and it caused his character to get so much backlash from movie fans. He's such a strong and stalwart character and doesn't get anywhere near enough credit for that, and that edit made it even worse. Faramir was so incredibly strong in the books! He had literally no interest in the ring whatsoever and wasn't even mildly tempted by it unlike EVERY OTHER CHARACTER had been or would have been. His strength was incredible and I really wish they'd left that in!
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Post by Hanasian on Nov 28, 2021 5:20:02 GMT
Hanasian : Technically they did give a reason for Aragorn choosing exile in the movies. He was afraid he'd be weak like Isildur and not be a good king. And in the extended edition Elrond explains why his mother fled with him to Rivendell and thus why he didn't grow up or return Gondor for so long. I haven't read the books in so long so I don't remember the details your mentioning. I wonder if maybe PJ filmed it at some point tho. I keep hearing he has days worth of extra footage which if that's true, I really hope he releases someday cause I'd love to see all of these extra things from the books that had to be cut from the movies and I think lots of other fans would too! My likes: Casting was perfect! The sets and affects were all so awesome and magical, and so was the music!!! In a visual and audio sense everything was just perfect!!! 💯 Dislikes: The same as Aralleth. I was gonna mention the exact same things. I really didn't appreciate how they wrote in Frodo telling Sam to go home when he never did that in the book and it caused his character to get so much backlash from movie fans. He's such a strong and stalwart character and doesn't get anywhere near enough credit for that, and that edit made it even worse. Faramir was so incredibly strong in the books! He had literally no interest in the ring whatsoever and wasn't even mildly tempted by it unlike EVERY OTHER CHARACTER had been or would have been. His strength was incredible and I really wish they'd left that in! Mae govannen Synariel. Yeah I remember that part. I guess I never bought in to 'being weak' was an explanation for fleeing the kingship, and it does make it a whole different story. But then I'm coming in with the book story, so it was to me rather pathetic. The whole unbroken father-to-son lineage from Elendil to Aragorn II in the north was a big part of the overall tale Tolkien wrote. I agree with both your takes on Faramir. David Wenhem was a perfect actor for the part. Too bad the screenplay was a out-of-character rubbish for him. |
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Post by Synariel The Admin on Nov 29, 2021 5:42:53 GMT
Hanasian : Technically they did give a reason for Aragorn choosing exile in the movies. He was afraid he'd be weak like Isildur and not be a good king. And in the extended edition Elrond explains why his mother fled with him to Rivendell and thus why he didn't grow up or return Gondor for so long. I haven't read the books in so long so I don't remember the details your mentioning. I wonder if maybe PJ filmed it at some point tho. I keep hearing he has days worth of extra footage which if that's true, I really hope he releases someday cause I'd love to see all of these extra things from the books that had to be cut from the movies and I think lots of other fans would too! My likes: Casting was perfect! The sets and affects were all so awesome and magical, and so was the music!!! In a visual and audio sense everything was just perfect!!! 💯 Dislikes: The same as Aralleth. I was gonna mention the exact same things. I really didn't appreciate how they wrote in Frodo telling Sam to go home when he never did that in the book and it caused his character to get so much backlash from movie fans. He's such a strong and stalwart character and doesn't get anywhere near enough credit for that, and that edit made it even worse. Faramir was so incredibly strong in the books! He had literally no interest in the ring whatsoever and wasn't even mildly tempted by it unlike EVERY OTHER CHARACTER had been or would have been. His strength was incredible and I really wish they'd left that in! Mae govannen Synariel. Yeah I remember that part. I guess I never bought in to 'being weak' was an explanation for fleeing the kingship, and it does make it a whole different story. But then I'm coming in with the book story, so it was to me rather pathetic. The whole unbroken father-to-son lineage from Elendil to Aragorn II in the north was a big part of the overall tale Tolkien wrote. I agree with both your takes on Faramir. David Wenhem was a perfect actor for the part. Too bad the screenplay was a out-of-character rubbish for him. Yeah, I would have loved to see the book version of Faramir on screen  It's a shame about Aragorn too. No matter what story, I never really appreciate the weakening of strong characters. |
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arelleth
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Post by arelleth on Nov 29, 2021 9:38:35 GMT
As a side note, I actually saw David Wenham at a Melbourne ComicCon a few years ago and was in the front two rows - my fangirl heart nearly melted!  I think he did a very good job of Faramir despite some character butchering. The other parts of his character as seen in the extended editions fleshed out the kindness and wisdom that wasn't entirely present in the normal length films. |
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Post by Synariel The Admin on Dec 4, 2021 19:52:14 GMT
As a side note, I actually saw David Wenham at a Melbourne ComicCon a few years ago and was in the front two rows - my fangirl heart nearly melted! I think he did a very good job of Faramir despite some character butchering. The other parts of his character as seen in the extended editions fleshed out the kindness and wisdom that wasn't entirely present in the normal length films. Oh that's so cool that you got see him so close!!! 😍👏 Yes! I was so happy to see those extended scenes!!! 👏 |
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arelleth
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Post by arelleth on Jan 20, 2022 10:35:15 GMT
Yessss it was so cool! Billy Boyd was there afterward, so I got to see both of them up close and was happily fangirling away. A friend and I had a big extended edition LotR marathon so we got to have a good long chat about those extra Faramir/Eowyn scenes! |
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Captain Boromir
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Post by Captain Boromir on Feb 12, 2022 20:59:43 GMT
As a side note, I actually saw David Wenham at a Melbourne ComicCon a few years ago and was in the front two rows - my fangirl heart nearly melted!  I think he did a very good job of Faramir despite some character butchering. The other parts of his character as seen in the extended editions fleshed out the kindness and wisdom that wasn't entirely present in the normal length films. That's awesome! I may get a shot at seeing Elijah Wood, Sean Astin, Billy Boyd, and Dominic Mognahan this summer if it works out and I can get tickets. |
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arelleth
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Post by arelleth on Feb 15, 2022 5:41:03 GMT
That's awesome! I may get a shot at seeing Elijah Wood, Sean Astin, Billy Boyd, and Dominic Mognahan this summer if it works out and I can get tickets. Oh that would be so cool! They all seem to get along really well and riff off each other so that should be fun. When I saw Billy Boyd, he actually called Dom Monaghan halfway through! He asked the audience, "Hey, does anyone know what time it is in Peru right now? 10pm? Oh, that's not too late for a phone call, is it?" And proceeded to make the call and hold the microphone up to his phone speaker so we could all hear them bantering. It was legitimately hilarious! |
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Captain Boromir
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Post by Captain Boromir on Feb 15, 2022 6:16:33 GMT
That's awesome! I may get a shot at seeing Elijah Wood, Sean Astin, Billy Boyd, and Dominic Mognahan this summer if it works out and I can get tickets. Oh that would be so cool! They all seem to get along really well and riff off each other so that should be fun. When I saw Billy Boyd, he actually called Dom Monaghan halfway through! He asked the audience, "Hey, does anyone know what time it is in Peru right now? 10pm? Oh, that's not too late for a phone call, is it?" And proceeded to make the call and hold the microphone up to his phone speaker so we could all hear them bantering. It was legitimately hilarious! That's funny! It's great how they still get along so well after all these years. |
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arelleth
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Post by arelleth on Feb 15, 2022 10:57:28 GMT
Right? It's so great to see the camaraderie. I believe Billy and Dom host a podcast together, too - I haven't listened, but my partner seemed to enjoy a few episodes.
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Captain Boromir
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Post by Captain Boromir on Feb 16, 2022 6:52:11 GMT
Right? It's so great to see the camaraderie. I believe Billy and Dom host a podcast together, too - I haven't listened, but my partner seemed to enjoy a few episodes. Yeah I have heard that! |
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Post by elora on Mar 14, 2022 2:02:22 GMT
What I liked: the scenery and sets....they nailed that part of the production. I liked some of the casting, even most of it.
What I didn't like: many of the screen play decisions...I know changes have to be made....and I know the screen play has to be written for an audience that will not be familiar at all with the source material. But some of the choices around key characters just fell short and didn't pay off. Faramir, for instance, was short changed. Êomer too, for that matter, along with Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth and the whole story around how a Ranger actually becomes a King...and not just any ole King, but a High King of two realms no less. Don't get me started on the Pelennor Field. The film mauled that, from the ominous eerie build up with the rear guard action fought at Osgiliath to the Army of the Dead treatment. They got the charge of the Rohirrim right, and they got Éowyn taking on the Witch-Kind mostly right. However, everything else around that gruelling battle was spoiled.
Then there's nuclear Galadriel. Ugh. 'Nuff said.
Lastly, the treatment they put over the One Ring. Whilst it made sense at the time, it doomed the subsequent Hobbit films. Because there is no way that Ring, once laid down as it was in LoTR, could ever be passed off as "Bilbo's magic ring of invisibility" as it was in the Hobbit. This is not entirely the PJ writing team's fault. JRRT wrote the Hobbit as a child's book and so presented devices like the One Ring as such. When it came to the writing of LoTR, his thinking around the One Ring had changed and it was altogether a very adult tale (rather than a child's tale). If PJ had started with the Hobbit, perhaps both trilogy film series could have been successful. But the Hobbit would not have attracted interest without the LoTR films...so somewhat inevitable and I'll stop now because I am clearly rambling.
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It's a shame about Aragorn too. No matter what story, I never really appreciate the weakening of strong characters. 
I think he did a very good job of Faramir despite some character butchering. The other parts of his character as seen in the extended editions fleshed out the kindness and wisdom that wasn't entirely present in the normal length films.
I think he did a very good job of Faramir despite some character butchering. The other parts of his character as seen in the extended editions fleshed out the kindness and wisdom that wasn't entirely present in the normal length films.
